The Last Stand
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Brent Boyer
Editor Brent Boyer writes "From the Editor" for Thursday's Steamboat Today. Contact him at 871-4221 or e-mail bboyer@steamboatpilot.com.
Love it or hate it, many Steamboat Pilot & Today readers can’t resist the temptation of our online story comments. It never ceases to amaze me how often people talk about what so-and-so poster wrote beneath one of our online articles.
More often than not, I’m one of the haters of our current system. It encourages anonymous readers to say whatever they want about whomever they want, with little or no repercussion. Legitimate comments about relevant issues quickly get swept under by the torrent of off-subject or off-color rants. Often, the anonymous commenters turn their attention to one another, hurling insults back and forth with little understanding of the impact of their words or even whom they’re directing them at.
The popularity of our Web site, no doubt fueled by the comment sections, presents a doubled-edged sword for the newspaper. On one hand, we’ve seen the number of “hits” to Steamboatpilot.com increase steadily and dramatically since August 2006, when we redesigned our site and added the ability for registered users to comment on stories or create their own threads. Like any organization, we constantly seek ways to expand the reach of our products and attract new audiences. The Internet is ground zero for such efforts.
On the other hand, the Steamboat Pilot & Today has a responsibility to uphold. Just like we must be held accountable for the articles we publish, we also must take stock of the content that we allow to be published through our reader forums. I think Steamboatpilot.com can and should serve as an avenue for thoughtful, responsible and intelligent discussion about the issues relevant to our readership. We’ve gotten off track when we hear from readers, sources and others who are afraid to talk to the newspaper or log on to its Web site because of the inflammatory, objectionable or simply inaccurate posts penned by anonymous commenters.
Today, I’m excited to announce changes to our Web site registration process that I think will dramatically improve the level of discourse on Steamboatpilot.com.
Beginning Aug. 4, all registered and new users of our Web site will be asked to update their account information to provide us the following:
■ First and last names
■ A valid daytime phone number where they can be reached
■ Gender
■ Zip code
■ Year of birth
Existing users will be able to post under their old pseudonyms if they check the box that reads “Hide my real name.” Otherwise, posts will include the users’ actual identities.
Once users complete the registration page, they will receive a telephone call from the Pilot & Today’s Internet department to verify their information. Once that verification is complete, users will be sent an e-mail confirmation, and they will be allowed to post comments to our Web site. Any future changes to their account settings will postpone their ability to submit content until those changes have been verified by Pilot & Today staff.
We will make every effort to verify users as quickly as possible, and in most cases such verification should take place the same day the request is made.
So, how will these changes improve Steamboatpilot.com? First, I think revealing their real identity to the Steamboat Pilot & Today will give pause to posters before their fingers attack the keyboard. To be clear, posters can remain anonymous to the public, if they so choose. Second, posters who fail to obey the terms of our Reader Submitted Content Policy can and will be banned from the site and no longer will be able to quickly re-register using a different e-mail address.
We anticipate the amount of reader comments to drop come Aug. 4, but our hope is the number and quality of posts will steadily increase going forward.
We live in a highly educated, dynamic community in the midst of significant growth and change. I think our readers have many thoughtful things to say about the myriad issues taking place here and around the world. And I think the Pilot & Today has the responsibility and opportunity to provide a welcoming, respectful venue for such discourse. I’m pleased that we’re taking a step in that direction.
If you have any questions or comments about our Web site or the changes in store, don’t hesitate to contact me at 871-4221 or bboyer@steamboatpilot.com.
Community comments
Note: The Steamboat Pilot & Today doesn’t necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full policy.
Scott Wedel
July 24, 2008 at 1:44 a.m.
› Suggest removal
It makes little sense to let people post anonymously as long as the SB Pilot knows everyone's real identity. That creates a situation where it is anonymous to the ignorant masses and a known person to the privileged insiders of the SB Pilot. So then no prominent local figure could ever post anonymously without expecting that the SB Pilot staff and reporters know what the anonymous persona said. This proposal creates a system where only friends of the SB Pilot can have any confidence that their anonymity will be protected.
If you are going to allow anonymous posts then the person posting should also allowed to be anonymous to the SB Pilot staff.
If the goal of the paper is to truly be responsible for what is posted then it needs to become a moderated site where someone must approve a post's content prior to it being posted for others to see. In which case anonymous posting is not a problem.
If the Paper believes that a poster logged in under their real name will be responsible then the post should include the person's real name.
spukomy (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 2:30 a.m.
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Will this stop the “inflammatory, objectional and simply innacurate posts penned by anonymous commenters”?
I agree, some people get way too uptight and personal with their attacks. But will someone get banned for being innacurate? Do you get a warning before getting thrown out of the game?
My mid-year resolution is to never post while enjoying the spirits. So, I guess I'm pretty much done here….
JustAsking (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:19 a.m.
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Brent,
Ever hear of Mark Twain?
Additionally what does gender, zipcode, and year of birth have to do with posting?
Is it just possible you are using this as a excuse to gather this data for some other purpose?
Does selling advertising have anything to do with this ?
CoJustice (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:49 a.m.
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Death of a newspaper?
Interesting questions required. It appears to be contact information.
bigdog (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:52 a.m.
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Wonder how many people will be gunning to get their hands on the “list”? Who at the pilot will have access to the “list”? Ever hear of Blackmail?
Think of all of the “sources” the pilot would find! “Oh, did you see what the Police Chief posted yesterday? Let's go ask him for a direct quote about that controversy!”
BS
MtnWarlock (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:02 a.m.
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Brent,
One could only anticipate that some slanderous things that were posted had a legal edge that the Pilot had to do some back peddling and review before liability of the matter took gain. Bully for you! There have been times I thought this new procedure should have been done a long time ago! Call me anytime with my credibility on my comments or opinions! I will give you the accurate information you need! I also feel I have kept restrained from throwing a fitted rage, even though some who post here create that environment. Logically, attacking issues instead of people seems to be a more educated and formal way to conduct business. When things get personal, they always get ugly because, the emotional freight train that follows can be unstoppable! Have a good day!
BoatMaster (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 6:31 a.m.
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I think the Pilot has a legitimate reason for stopping some of these rants, but possibly based on what I read above could be doing in in the wrong manner.
I truely believe that many of the folks who post here are not of the majority voice of the town and the comments are hurtful to the image of Steamboat. If anyone was thinking of visiting or moving here and read these comments I am sure they would think everyone here are a bunch of freaks.
Most of these comments are from the same 20 or so people. Some post often every day all the time and feel they are the voice of Steamboat. Not to mention the whole entitlement issue many posters have about Steamboat.
The Pilot should just turn off the blog section and let everyone just read the news. If you have a issue then send a email or letter to the paper for publication. They could even start a email comments section in the paper.
If you want to blog about Steamboat start a blog away fjrom the pilot.
Also…What about a PDF version of the whole paper instead of just the front page??
another_local (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 6:56 a.m.
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Sounds like a good solution to me.
sickofitall (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:01 a.m.
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Hell, the PILOT is not LIABLE for anything it prints! Why should we be liable???
sickofitall (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:03 a.m.
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BTW, Ill just stop posting, I do not need annoying phone calls.
colobob (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:15 a.m.
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Once again as it so often happens in life the many must pay for the actions of a few. Personally I don't much care for the new policy although I can understand the reasoning behind it. Unfortunately however anonymous no longer means anonymous. colobob wishes all a good life as this will be my last post. See you on the water & remember to take a kid (or adult) fishing. Good bye all. Say good night Gracie!
Zac Brennan
July 24, 2008 at 7:19 a.m.
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Sounds like an invasion of privacy to me.
Gadfly (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:46 a.m.
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The new policy will protect the centuries-old tradition of anonymous writing while providing a filter against some of the really idiotic stuff that a few bloggers feel empowered to write. Just make very sure, Brent, that the List stays confidential.
Brent Boyer
July 24, 2008 at 7:52 a.m.
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JustAsking:
Yes, I have heard of Mark Twain. And I am sure his publisher — his nephew, Charles Webster — knew he was Samuel Clemens. At least that’s who Webster made the checks out to.
All:
I'm off to work the volunteer playground build at Soda Creek this morning. I'll be happy to address many of these other questions when I return to the office this afternoon.
Thanks,
Brent Boyer
Editor, Steamboat Pilot & Today
thecondoguy1 (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:02 a.m.
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God bless our soldiers, making sacrifices for our freedom everyday, God bless America, and God bless each and every one of you. Good luck and good bye.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 8:15 a.m.
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Thanks, Brent! This is a great policy and it's in tune with most other sites that allow comments; at least the ones I've been to. I'm glad to see this change!
JustAsking (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:23 a.m.
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Brent,
Have fun at the playground, but please address the real questions posed:
What do gender, age, and zip have to do with posting?
Will you be using the list to sell advertising?
What individuals, company, or organizations may eventually have access?
cybergypsy (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:47 a.m.
› Suggest removal
Some who comment anomymously do so for fear of repercussion from employers, friends or neighbors. I think if Comments are allowed, anonymity should be an option. however, the threads do seem to deteriorate quickly away from the topic or issue and become ridiculous rants. I will not miss those bloggers who resort to personal attacks as they will not conform with the new registration policy. It is the website of the Steamboat Pilot and those who want to rant and personally attack can register their own site and blog to their hearts content. The rest of us will be able to post comments that are meaningful and maybe even important.
dimwitiguess (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:51 a.m.
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Is it true that Donna Howl will be put in charge of the confidential list? Pat Gleason, Paula Stevenson, Scott Standford and her will safe guard the list of names?
I haven't posted in a long time but your list will be as confidential as School employee records. I'm pretty certain those you and your “friends of Steamboat” will be on the “confidential-until-they-or-anyone-else-we-support-over-the-poster-we-don't-like” list of contributors.
And will you give out the names of the offenders to those who are slandered because the offender's post “just-slipped-by”your-reader/editors of the postings?
Confidential list, my @$$ - reporters DON”t have to reveal their sources, remember? the PLOT still holds the reins to allow the stampede any time it dam well pleases and you know it. Will the PLOT take LEGAL responsibility for those offensive coments that slip past? Until you do, I among others do not believe your BS. Reporters have NO ethics. It's just a scoop to them.
Long live the PLOT and it's never ending schemes to out anyone it chooses.
Nice try boyuer, we see right through you and your unsavory colleagues, but I'm just THE dimwitiguess
mikeforney
July 24, 2008 at 8:52 a.m.
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As one who has been savaged and personally attacked by anonymous bloggers in response to my posts, this policy is long overdue.
It was only after I challenged my attacker (who never responded when I asked them to put up [their name] or shut up) did the hateful messages stop.
The forum is a great way to allow public comment. Better these new procedures than the loss of the site.
cmducks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 9:34 a.m.
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I haven't been rude, obscene, or written anything my mother wouldn't approve of, but to say that some comment I may leave today, won't affect something I am doing 10 years from now is naive. It’s like people getting fired for putting a pic of them in their underwear on Myspace, and having a boss find it.
It all sounds a little “Big Brother” to me. I am surprised that they don’t want my social security number, and mother’s maiden name to check to see if I am giving my real name or a nickname.
I’m not even confident that the names in the captions for the paper photos are correct, so not real confident in how my information will be used by the paparazzi.
I will rest better knowing that if someone slips, gets hot and rants, offends the wrong person they will be stalked down by the pilot, or maybe even the police for slander. Is this about “cleaning up the comments”, or not offending anyone? What’s next taking down Christmas trees………..crap that’s already happening!
Good night and God bless……oh sorry Good night, and may the non denominational spirit who you value highly, shine upon you.
Steve Lewis
July 24, 2008 at 9:38 a.m.
› Suggest removal
Thanks for the effort to improve the discourse, Brent.
Some “will never post again”. I understand how anonymity enables people to engage. But for those who have engaged for months, I can't say I understand how anonymity now outweighs the opportunity to converse and contribute with our “web” community. Either way I'll regret those departures.
I hope the Pilot is successful in stopping the personal attacks. When we reach that point I can look forward to reading contributions from citizens “who never posted before”.
-Steve Lewis
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 9:45 a.m.
› Suggest removal
I think this is a great way to get people to talk about issues in a responsible way. If you don't like the new rules go to craigslist.com Rants and Raves and go for it. It is a great place for cyber bullies!!
justathought (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 10:24 a.m.
› Suggest removal
I have to agree with a couple of other posters here, what does age, gender and zip have to do with your objective? Your intent is understandable but as long as you have my name, phone number and pseudonym why would you need any more info? How is this list to be protected, if we speak our opinion against a politician such as the sheriff, how easy will it be for one of your staff to provide him with the info? I don't know why you are gathering info that in my opinion seems irrelevant to your objective so I will have to think about whether it's worth posting here anymore or not. I would also like to see your privacy policy on this list, or will there be a “not responsible for lost, stolen, published or other misuse of private information” clause?
seeuski
July 24, 2008 at 10:38 a.m.
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I agree with those that think the personal attacks are a problem, I have been heatedly attacked by oposition in previous posts and wish that a respectful discorse could occur.But the reality is that in this contentious political climate we are experiencing these days differing political opinions are held against the poster and if then their identity is known, well blacklisting is and has been used and suggested by the opposers, typically the hard left. Sorry but true.
There was a poster who put an online jewelry web address in the hopes that locals would not use a specific downtown shop.
I requested the post be cancelled to no avail, and I have no connection to or any relationship with anyone there.
Just was angry at the personal attack.
I do in light of that explicit experience don't trust the purity of the reasons given.
I do agree with earlier posts here that comments can be filtered before they appear and then anonymity would not be an issue.
I do commend those like Kielbasa who are open here but some of us who are more responsable with what we say here may have good reasons not to put ourselves in a position to be harmed in this little town.
See ya on the slopes.
Ski safe.
cmducks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:08 a.m.
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It is a small town, and my comments don't need to affect my relatives. Even worse have a friend of a friend of my boss not like something and get me fired.
Voice your opinion about a sheriff’s DWAI, or how a school board situation is screwy, and have it affect a son, daughter, or brothers business in this VERY small town. You are then feeding the power wheel, and handcuffing the voice of an individual. This especially comes to the front if whoever is in charge of the names, happens to be friends of the individual falling under scrutiny. Small town politics can backfire quicker than anything, and the risk isn’t worth it. Moderating the content of individual posts would be better than controlling who posts what due to the fear of repercussion. There are two issues here the attacking and being inappropriate, should definitely be stopped, but the ability for a community to voice in about a “politically sensitive” issue is unrivaled in the modern society of article commenting/blogging. This “voice” is being stopped by the thought that at some point in time you will be confronted about your opinion if you are speaking up about a social issue. Seems like a giant step backwards to me.
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:21 a.m.
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Joe thinks this fishwrapper has never been about letting people voice their opinions, and he's not surprised that they now want personal information to create an account. It's a marketing tool, plain and simple. They will sell the info to whomever wants to pay for it.
These are people who should be upholding the 1st Amendment, instead, they appear to be attempting to regulate free speech, in direct contradiction to it's principles.
Joe will be glad to give his personal info:
Joe Mama
550 Frontage Road
Biteme, CO 80477
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:23 a.m.
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Joe also finds it ironic that these folks are willing to put the effort into gathering and maintaining this information, but too lazy to monitor the posts.
Guess they've never heard of the concept of a moderator.
Puv (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:25 a.m.
› Suggest removal
I have to say that I'm disappointed with this decision. I understand that many people hide behind anonymity in order to attack or insult but that is a part of this kind of virtual environment. I can't imagine that this wasn't thought about and discussed prior to establishing these forums.
Personally, I would say nothing here that I wouldn't say directly to someone's face in full disclosure but the kind of information that you are asking for is too invasive especially in the age of identity theft and data mining for marketing purposes. What security measures are in place to protect this information?
I rarely post myself, but I believe that anonymity is important in this type of environment and that more often than not, it allows people to speak their minds and provides a forum for criticisms that promote the true spirit of journalism. If you are unwilling or unable to provide good documentation for your stance then you should reap the criticism that follows. If you make a harsh criticism of someone with authority and reflect your opinion; who is to say that this provided registration information won't be made available to the wrong person and have a real-world consequence? I am not a conspiracy theorist and I hope that I don't come across that way, I just hate to see any First Amendment compromise, whatsoever. I also hate to witness journalists play apologist to authorities that might be complaining about criticisms received through these threads. There are already rules in place to remove inappropriate language and nonsensical completely incorrect rants. Will negative and critical opinions now be somewhat compromised? I understand the “put up or shut up” mentality and I believe that we should be forthright in our thoughts and actions. I also think that anonymity should be protected in these posts. The basic premises that often become attacks on First Amendment rights always have to do with a few people being so extreme that someone is offended and then certain groups get involved and the next thing you know a book or an album is banned because someone's child heard a “dirty” lyric in a song. However, we don't modify or take away our most basic rights to suit the sensibilities of a smaller group. We should always be wary of such things because once those compromises are made then others follow, and follow, until we find ourselves gradually giving up our rights because someone was offended. Now, I realize that I might be getting too far into free speech for this case at this point but it's the principle that is important.
Puv (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:27 a.m.
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Allow me to cite a case from Florida two years ago.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/07/31/Column…
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.
› Suggest removal
here's the other thing…..It's not even doable.
Here's why :
http://www.fakenamegenerator.com/gen-ran…
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:39 a.m.
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The more Joe thinks about it, the more he realizes that this issue is simply the impotent actions of folks that don't truly want respectful discourse in these forums, they just want to coddle a few weakminded posters who complain about being “picked on”.
Impotent, quite like their “Our View” column.
Puv (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:39 a.m.
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Yeah, anyone who wants get around it can, easily. It's the essence of the whole thing that gets me.
Puv (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:41 a.m.
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Heh heh
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.
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Wow, I agree, Puv…. thanks for a voice of reason.
I dont think I will post either, so much for a public forum. I understood that comments would be reviewed before posting, obviously they have not been. The solution? the release of MY personal information to a paper that regularly has to apologize for incorrect information that they have published. I dont think so. Thanks Brent.
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:50 a.m.
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meethinks,
That's what they WANT, voices of dissention to go away.
Don't play into their hands.
Utilize the above link, if need be, and if they go forward with this concept, DELUGE them with new accounts.
Obviously, they have thought this through very well.
Surprise, surprise.
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:50 a.m.
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whoops “haven't thought this through very well”
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 11:57 a.m.
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I think we all know what the result will be, however, maybe this is something that should be voted on. Majority rules. Some very good points are being made on both sides of this issue.
JazzSlave (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 12:19 p.m.
› Suggest removal
Sound & fury signifying nothing. The Pilot has already demonstrated the ability & willingness to delete/ban posters and their rants.
Since commenters will retain the ablility to comment anonymously, the only impediment to what the “moderator” is trying to prevent will be fear that the Pilot might abuse the personal data it collects.
If any abuse does occur, the Pilot could find itself in court, and then we'll all have something new to blab about…
justathought (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 12:22 p.m.
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Sorry shoe, there is nothing to vote on, this decision is “owners and editors” rule not readers. The way I see it, we have two choices, provide the info and post, or don't. I'm leaning toward don't.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 12:31 p.m.
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While this is a public forum, it's a private website. The only vote that truly counts is the Pilot's.
Voices of dissention are not discouraged in the least. If they were, don't you think all the people naysaying this change would have their posts deleted or be banned? This info is actually less than most online forums ask you to provide.
Maybe it just means that people need to stop making false or unproven accusations towards people. If you fear for what you say, either find another way to say it or find another site to say it on. There are plenty of online web forums that you can provide the link to a specific story on, if you really feel the need. It's not that hard.
I'm living proof that not being anonymous on this forum hasn't harmed me in the least, and many times, I'm a worst offender. What I don't do is spout off false accusations without providing proof, unless I'm being facetious when confronting someone who tends to do that more often than not.
As most know, I can carry on a perfectly civil conversation online until provoked, and like most, it doesn't take much to provoke me. For some who rely on anonymity, it takes almost nothing to provoke them. If you are worried about your info being provided to someone else, you probably should never shop online, either. Also, you should never use a computer since nothing is ever truly deleted from it, for the right IT person. Don't make phone calls, because they can still be tracked by the phone companies and the police.
You can still have strong opinions while being courteous, instead of automatically labeling someone and crying “ad hominem” when someone does the same back. And with the people posting how to get around it, you might have just provided the reasoning for more stringent need of verification information.
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.
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If the Pilot is taking the resposibility of keeping our information safe the E and O coverage on the Pilot's insurance should triple.
Puv (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 12:44 p.m.
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I think that the principle is off by asking people for this information which could be used improperly. I've done plenty online and I get a lot of junk mail because of it. The moderator should step up more to eliminate the more inappropriate stuff. The point is to garner reactions and discourse and it rings more true with anonymity.
That is just my opinion.
cmducks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 12:49 p.m.
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Matt,
when i buy something online, does the sherrif get my phone number, name and Zip code?
If i buy something online, does a member of the school board get to harrass my child.
when i buy something online, does jack taylors wife get me fired becuase i bad mouthed her, and knits with my bosses wife?
It's a little different.
And I didn't bad mouth jacks wife…..hahaha
I think it is a little different than that
skywatcher (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:03 p.m.
› Suggest removal
It's their website, they can do as they want with it. It is sad that the final straw was due to some incident in OC last weekend. What a waste. I do have to agree, does smell like dreams of marketing $'s. The comment section is a big draw to your website, it is not necessarily the news content.
Bottomline: If you don't like it, don't post here. Start your own forum and make your own rules.
SoRouttNative (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:05 p.m.
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Coincidence that the comments on the Oak Creek fiasco disappeared and the new Pilot policy was announced? Just wondering.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 1:15 p.m.
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cmducks- Then as Jazz said, sue the Pilot for releasing info to sources that shouldn't have it.
Before the internet, if you shopped somewhere in person, and you didn't like the service or the attitude of someone, you could stop shopping there as your choice.
If what you say gets you fired from your job, this is an at will work state. You can sue your employer if you can find cause or if you have a contract job, check the contract to see what it allows for dismissal.
If you badmouth the board, maybe you need more people to help you in who you want to get voted in. If it affects your child, bring this to the Board, start a recall with any facts you can provide to back it up, but mouthing off on here doesn't seem to work in that instance except to just blow off steam. D wasn't recalled, remember? I'll just use that as an example.
If you start rumors pertaining to illegal activities because you have “inside knowledge” and aren't bringing that to the police, if it hinders or could help the investigation then I think you should be held accountable for it.
Ultimately, if you don't trust the Pilot site with this info…don't post here. It doesn't get any more simple than that. The internet is humongous…this is only 1 single site. Someone already posted the craigslist.com site and a few days ago, there was an independent blogger site posted.
JustAsking (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:23 p.m.
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Just how is collecting this information going to eliminate “personal attacks” in a post?
The premise makes no sense at all. The pilot has used the power to remove posts and ban posters all along.
Those that think knowing the identity of those who pose uncomfortable questions and question the positions of other posters is going to make the forum a better place are mistaken.
All this direction will do is result in a group of posters of a like mind and stifle any voices of real dissention.
The reality is the collection of this information has very little if anything to do with policing the forum but everthing to do with marketing.
What's next, race, religion, social security number, voting record, occupation?
When you are back from the playground Brent, please explain how this new policy is going to make the forum better. We are also very interested in your answers to the previously asked questions.
Note to those posters who think this is a good idea: the tools are already in place for the Pilot to moderate the forum.
Knowing gender, zipcode, and age as well as name rank and serial number of a poster does not infulence this ability at all.
It's a smoke screen folks. Wake up.
cmducks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:28 p.m.
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Sue, leave, sue………all intreaging options, like i said it is more trouble than it is worth.
bye
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 1:30 p.m.
› Suggest removal
Justasking- for banning posters, it now makes it harder for them to re-register since all they needed was an different email addy before. Now, it's more personalized.
Honestly, some of the things Brent mentioned were suggestions I passed along to him a few months ago, so I don't think the Cargo incident was THE factor…just icing on the cake. Whether he already had these suggestions in mind or took my advice, I can't say. I've honestly have never met Brent face to face. I even brought up having long time posters who are generally decent posters to be used as volunteer moderators, that the Pilot could pick, kind of like their editorial board.
Anyone want that job should probably send Brent a PM.
BoatMaster (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:36 p.m.
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Everyone
Remember the Pilot article about the Sheriff Wall trial where his lawyers were contesting the venue and they cited comments that were negative on the Pilot website?
Next time they may subpeana the comments and who wrote them. How would you like a angry cop at your door in the middlle of the night with a list of names????????
momofthree (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:44 p.m.
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the pilot should simply moderate the site, like the NY Times does. That paper gets thousands of posts every day from around the world, and yet the comment sections remain completely civil and, often, insightful—and yes, they allow competing/dissenting POVs, they just don't allow personal attacks, multiple posts on the same issue from the same person, and, of course, foul language. it's a better gage of community opinion, too, because one person can say something once and that's it—so the same 20 people don't monopolize a discussion rehashing the same garbage over and over.
brent, please explain why you don't simply go that route?
Brent Boyer
July 24, 2008 at 1:44 p.m.
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All:
Many of you have raised valid points about the pending change. I will attempt to answer a few of those questions/concerns before my next meeting.
The Pilot & Today will NOT sell or otherwise distribute user identities or information to marketing agencies. User information similarly will NOT be given to curious readers or others upset about particular posts, etc. Only a couple of Pilot & Today Web site administrators, myself included, will have access to the user database.
The basic information we are asking for (name, date of birth, gender, zip code and telephone number) are simply pieces of information that can help us verify your identity. It is the minimum we felt was required to help ensure accuracy.
This change has been in the works for several months, pending changes to our site administration programming. That work was completed last week; hence the announcement of the changes today.
The goal is not to stifle comments or pander to any particular group. As I stated in my column, the goal is simply to elevate the quality of the discussions that take place on our forum. I think those of you who have talked to me about this particular issue know that those are my true intentions. The bottom line is we're trying to preserve anonymity here while also adding a quality control element.
Brent Boyer
JustAsking (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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Matt,
Your “cure” is much worse than the infrequent “disease.”
scooter (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:51 p.m.
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I'm posting this from another blog (today under the dreaded TC debate) because this will be my last.
ABOUT Triple Crown…
It’s just economics 101. If a business is relying on one factor (TC) for 1/3 of their yearly income, and feel that if they loose TC they will go out of business… Then they will fail eventually.
But I gotta say this before I go into the goodnight. On July 4th post fireworks, no business were open except the bars. not one!!! Here you have a captive audience of 20,000 to 25,000 people, with no businesses open. They want to spend money, buy T shirts, CDs, Books, Candy, and Souvenirs. Even possibly have a cup of coffee, or ice cream, or just browse. Your businesses lost a lot of money that night! stop complaining!!!
If you demand family time… fine… but stop complaining!!!
In a resort town… there are no days off. That’s the price you pay for living in a resort town!
This will be my last blog since Boyer is going to change the rules. Too bad… Just think of all the junk mail all of you that re-register are going to get.
PS. I found out today that revenues from the ad dept are way down, and they are now discounting to long time coustomers. What does that tell you…
They are gonna sell your imformation!!!
jomarch (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 1:56 p.m.
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This sounds like responsible journalism and good citizenship to me.
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 2:11 p.m.
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We all have a choice, stay or go. Of those of us that care to stay, we will give our information to the Pilot. We trust our information to stay private. I love and care for this town enough to run the risk , in order to voice my opinions now and then.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 2:20 p.m.
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“We all have a choice, stay or go.”
Ahhhhhh…reminds me of “The Clash!”
“Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
An if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know”
Steve Lewis
July 24, 2008 at 2:24 p.m.
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Looking through the cons above, I still agree with Brent's direction.
Retribution: There may be cases where truly important local info came to the surface only because it could be done anonymously, but I can't remember any. Examples anyone…? And as others note, this blog is not one's only option.
On the other hand the past week offers far too many of examples of insulting, negative posts.
Marketing: Even if the Pilot could sell such a list, I don't see the value of someone buying it.
-Steve Lewis
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 2:25 p.m.
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Very good, ha ha you know kielbasa, you always made me laugh in high school to. Drama was so fun. Sometimes I would do anything to go back to those days with ML. Oh and the music was real good back then too!!
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 2:55 p.m.
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Thanks, shoe! With no theater right now, I guess this is my “stage!” Better than it being my soapbox, I guess! LOL!
We are now our parents- the music was always better way back when! I miss those days, too, when I didn't have to worry about this kind of stuff.
JEM (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:05 p.m.
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It is hard to find substance in most of the on-line comment on this site.
I had given up wading through the crap and posturing here to look for rational discussion of issues. I read and responded to this story because it appears many others feel the same.
Imagine if this was a forum where comments are held to a higher standard than currently exists, and where the few do not foul the nest for the many.
id04sp (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:15 p.m.
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So, what you're saying, is that the realtors who advertise in the Pilot think the forum is hurting the image of the place and harming sales.
See ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.
shoe_Z_Q
July 24, 2008 at 3:24 p.m.
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You are welcome kielbasa!!! But, back on track. I think B.B.'s intentions are only for the greater good. This is something that users will get used to. Just like soup, it is hot at first, then it cools off with a little time!!
id04sp (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:34 p.m.
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Lewi,
The folks in my subdivision finally caught on to what was happening to them, and have taken action. Whether my posts helped, I don't know. I only know they could have. Posting under my own name would only have resulted in the board of directors nitpicking me to death and charging me with legal fees every time I raised an issue, because every time they had to call the HOA lawyer due to a complaint, the person making the complaint got billed for the legal fees. The only justification necessary was that someone took an action which resulted in legal expenses to the HOA.
Some other things got worked out too. Whether my raising issues about the courts had anything to do with it or not, I won't know, but things that used to be on my credit record are not there anymore, and it's not because of anything I did outside of this forum.
Mr. Brent could accomplish the same goal simply by having a moderated forum where the post has to be reviewed by the Pilot staff before it gets posted. That would slow things down, but would accomplish the same end goal of not allowing vitriol and spurious allegations to be posted without proof.
I do happen to know that, if someone wanted to sue me, they could trace back through the Pilot records and my e-mail provider to identify the account name and identify me. It's just that it would take subpoenas to do so, and that would mean someone would have to invite me to prove that they were breaking the law. Nobody has ever taken the trouble because, guess what, I have always been able to prove what I've posted — unless it was something like the Dr. Savage thread where I engaged in an objective discussion of the physcial phenomena behind global warming.
Frankly, nobody will miss me, and guess what, I won't miss the forum. There are others where I can pass my time while waiting for batch runs to complete, so when I'm tied to the computer waiting for a job to finish, I'll just surf elsewhere.
Honestly, I really do think that realtors are blaming the falling sales on negative publicity. I've always thought it was a hoot that a realtor could make the same profit off selling a house as they guy who took the risk to build it. Maybe some of them will learn how to live on a working man's budget, eh?
Adios. (__|__)
CoJustice (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:40 p.m.
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This scenario reminded me of an important decision in the Tattered Cover v. City of Thornton.
The case was based around the police department obtaining personal information. The Court eventually stated that law enforcement needs to show the information is critical to a prosecution.
I cannot help but wonder what position the paper would take if faced with a demand from the Sheriffs office with a possible motive “critical to a prosecution”. These types of cases could be personal vendettas.
Since the paper has not publicly published a policy by their legal council, rather than an opinion and state clearly what the information will be used for, who has access and what position the paper will take when faced with a decision that could lead to expensive legal battle, I will not post.
Your not even protecting the paper without these policies and guidelines let alone any assurance to posters.
http://www.tatteredcover.com/NASApp/stor…
rsssco (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:43 p.m.
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Good riddance LCDR. You may be the biggest whack job that ever visited this place. Don't ket the door hit you in your fat head.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 3:53 p.m.
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id- the realtors can blame whatever, but I guess this forum is to blame for the whole country since sales suck everywhere. Couldn't be due to bad lending practices or the like.
rsssco (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 3:58 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff because it violated our terms of use.)
paddlefisher (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:17 p.m.
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I have been called a sexual pervert because i questioned how the woman was dressed in the nerny blog..now im acused of being someone im not by muckermania..in an email..so i think this is a good idea..why cannt we all just be kind to each other
stmbtgrl20 (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:38 p.m.
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I don't have a problem with it as long as long as I don't get pesky phone calls. I dont' comment very often, but when I do I stand behind the comments that I make. There shouldn't be any need for personal attacks on others. Under anonimity people are more likely to be highly critical of others. So if you make a comment, be prepared to back it 100%, and if you think a comment you make will cause embarrassment to family members, rethink the comment you are about to make. It really is not that difficult to treat others with some respect, is it?
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 4:58 p.m.
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Joe-mama- thanks for the encouraging words so thoughtfully posted above, but you see, Mr Douglas has already contacted employers in the past because of comments posted for his articles, so you see how much easier it will be now? No, I enjoy my privacy and honestly, if the pilot is more concerned about those that dont live here, rather than the ones who make the valley thier home, perhaps it is time that we switch to other papers. As demonstrated, the local voices are not longer considered a topic of interest. (gee, we only spend our money here…..live here…..no reason why our opinions should be considered……..)
Soroco_Alum (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.
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Brent: I am very happy to hear of this change in policy. It is important to create a sense of responsibility for the hurtful and harsh words that have been thrown around in the comment section of the site. Freedom of speech is important and one of our constitutional rights, however morality should come in to play as well. I have only visited the Pilot site three times in the past and every time I was incredibly shocked by the comments that were posted. I mentioned this in a post the other day, but I am sure that people would take more responsibility for their words if they had to identify themselves!!
Thank you Brent and The Steamboat Pilot!!
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:02 p.m.
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also-
ID
Honestly I have enjoyed the coorespondence, you at least make people think. You will be missed……most of the time:)
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 5:12 p.m.
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Meethinks- If I remember correct, Rob Douglas was called by someone at his home about one of his columns, and left him a nasty message. What that person forgot was he had caller ID and it had nothing to do with getting info from this forum. Unless there was another incident you're referring to?
atypicalskibum (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:15 p.m.
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Hey Brent-
Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, the blog is a little too long to read thoroughly (good job by the way, tough to do unless you are Tom Ross).
Was there any thought to creating a link to a separate page web page with people comments? Keep the anonymity but lose the sometimes nonsensical ranting that gets incorporated into the articles online with the current system?
bigdog (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:16 p.m.
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Really sad. I tend to read newspapers/mags for the entertainment value. I always first go to the letters to the editor, second to the controversial articles and read the comments. I guess the Pilot will not be on my hit list much longer.
Your comment sections are going to be lame at best.
bigdog OUT!
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:17 p.m.
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same article, different incident. no difference, the Pilot had no issues with one of thier journalists calling ones employer over a comment, but oddly, Rob never called the one who posted the comment. Seemed one sided. But so do recent articles seems to be the new way of journalism for Steamboat.
bigdog (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:21 p.m.
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Alright, I am back for one last thought (maybe): Why not allow users to filter out/ignore certain posters? I post quite a bit on the Yahoo Financial blogs and use the “Ignore this user” all the time. That way, if i keep seeing rants from an “idiot”, i check his/her name and POOF, no more idiotic rants. That way the community can manage it themselves, not big brother.
bigdog out! again!
Jean (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 5:35 p.m.
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I used to live in SBS for about 20 years or so. I still like to read the pilot so I can keep up with what is going on. I will gladly fill out any info you may want, however I live in Mexico. Yes,I do have a phone,not that it works very well,I don't know my zip code,as it's not important (I receive no mail). So my question is…will the pilot spend all that money calling down here to verify my info??? If so,you will probably have to call several times as we don't have an answer machine.
madmoores (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 6:22 p.m.
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Hmmmm, some very good ideas here, particularly bigdogs last one, about “poof”…one more idiot gone, I like that. Id, you seem to make alot of sense sometimes and other times you seem completely off your rocker, guess that makes you even, not a bad place to be. I will miss your posts as well, especially the CH discussion, some people are so naive. Instead of moderating(what a concept huh??), now they want all of our info in this day and age of identity theft? Sorry, “me and a couple others” in no way makes me feel safe about you having my info. I have been posting here a little more often lately because some of the venom spewers of the past have moved on, I am not going to post anymore however because I would never trust a newspaper with sensitive information, name yes, phone #, no. Give someone an inch and they will take a mile.
Matt, I'll take the “or should I go now” option. I admire you for always being rational and for putting your name behind what you say, if that is really who you are;)j/k… When I started posting here, I told you my name right off the bat, go look it up, first couple posts I put here. My user name is my name along with the first initials of my families names, I'm not angry or insane, could have been dammoores but I thought that would be offensive to some. If the pilot can't take my word for who I am then oh well, one less spot in the favorites column, it's their paper, they can make whatever rule they want.
I, like bigdog, read the paper online for entertainment and just to see what someone is going to say next, it's fun and I get a good laugh out of all the nonsense that happens here on a day-to-day basis. I guess “you and a couple others” are not good enough to moderate, which somebody IS doing, I see posts deleted all the time. Why get personal when you already posses, and use, the power to delete at will?
I've migrated to another forum anyway and it is a bummer that I will not be able to join my local neighbors in discussion. Like id, I won't be missed either and despite working and playing in Steamboat, I don't live there so my opinions don't count anyway.
Here's my final thought:
If you're so sensitive that an online forum, posted on by anonymous users, gets you so down and upset, then you need to stick your head in a bucket of water and get it over with right now. Grow some friggin' balls and suck it up, letting an online news forum bother you is a pretty pathetic existence in the least. Enjoy life, take a kid fishing(thanks cobob), ride a bike, recycle, laugh, love and by all means just live, there is not enough time in life to be mean or put up with the wussies and their whining.
“Elvis has left the building.”
424now (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 6:55 p.m.
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I too value the anonymous quality of my on-line moniker.
You will loose more than you gain with this approach to moderation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewpivXjLp…
skywatcher (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 6:59 p.m.
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I made a comment earlier concerning the pilots marketing agenda, I now think this is wrong. It is a marketing agenda, just not the pilot's.
Does the possibility of tourists coming to the boat, reading (and enjoying) the local paper/life and then going home to log on the the piolt's site to read about this lovely place only to see the stuff that is written in the comments section. I am sure it will scare the heck out them that nirvana is not what they thought it was and they will vacation else where. Next, big event organizers see the same stuff and then they think maybe another town, say Avon, is a better place to host their event.
Think about it…… Pressure comes from many directions and when people are concerned about losing tax dollars or revenue, those in public office take notice. God forbid that the rest of the world read about nirvana to see that it is just as jacked up as the rest of the world.
ThreeJobs (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:12 p.m.
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Found this site. No personal info required to post. If you wondered what happed to the banned SBVOR all you need do is Google and here it is!
http://sbvor-local.blogspot.com/2008/07/…
id04sp (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:14 p.m.
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rsssco,
The essence of illusion is diversion.
Now, come back to bed and watch WIll and Grace with me, Honey. Karen is skinny in this one.
constant1 (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:49 p.m.
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will someone tell me. do you have to log in to see your own posts?
cuz mine are gone. period. not removed. non existent!!!!!
1234 (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 7:56 p.m.
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if you do not like the new rules, do not comment to it. the paper could shut it all down if they wanted to.
Y_not (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:12 p.m.
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R u kidding me? in this tiny lil community your are not going to allow us to keep our identity's to ourselves even thought we have legit concerns and thoughts that we feel we need to express??? Maybe what we are saying are things we want to let community leaders know but dont want to suffer for. Its a small valley one bad review and your company could be shut down forever or you might find you can't get a job or someone close to you could lose theirs. I think Wall and Cargo have a lot to do with this, damn us for having an opinion on the horrible decisions they made, but be in our shoes. we dont have the paper reporting all this. We have a D.A. office that wont cut a decent plea with anyone that isnt in the news (Wall&Cargo) wont reverse a charge no matter the evidence (Rainbow Gathering dumpster divers). You guy's want to refuse our ability to remain anonymous fine, but you give every single one of your “blotter suspects” the same press.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 8:23 p.m.
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constant1- If you click on your own (or anyone's) login handle, it will show you when they joined (you- 13JUL08) and how many posts they have, along with a list of them. You have 14 posts. Maybe you weren't looking at the right threads?
sickofitall (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 8:40 p.m.
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“The basic information we are asking for (name, date of birth, gender, zip code and telephone number) are simply pieces of information that can help us verify your identity. It is the minimum we felt was required to help ensure accuracy.”
Fine and dandy until his laptop is stolen :P
steamboatyahoo (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 9:13 p.m.
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sorry to see that so many of these anonymous posters seem to be stating that they'll no longer post with the new rules. I was hoping to find out who some of these aXXholes in town really are.
Pilot, if you're so worried about anonymous posting then why to you print so many of these comments in your daily paper? That always seemed screwy to me.
still anonymous!
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 9:28 p.m.
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hmmmmmmmmm… anyone else notice the new names this evening? it is nice to see the participation, opinions and ideals. Though we all may not agree. i have to say what a nice irony to see how many appreciate free speech. yet are afraid to use names and personal info online. I am one of them. This gave insights to our community, and those that would visit or just care about the valley… gonna go away now? or shall we find another way to express opinions that may effect our families and lives here. How nice that the Pilot feels this need to censure…………………..interesting.
ThreeJobs (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 9:38 p.m.
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“More often than not, I’m one of the haters of our current system. It encourages anonymous readers to say whatever they want about whomever they want, with little or no repercussion.” Says Brent.
Just what “repercussions” do you have in mind? Is it just possible that those critical of the Pilot reporting and editorials are the real target?
One thing is certain. Counter point posts will be a thing of the past. You have chosen a course that insures that most all you will hear is “Yes.” But ofcourse then you can tell yourself what a great job you are doing.
No more posts questioning the lack of depth of reporting on affordable housing.
No more controversy. Just a watered down, superficial, plain vanilla, light weight, rah rah rag.
“Be careful what you wish for,” is always very good advice.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 9:44 p.m.
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What's even more interesting? Some of these same people have no problem discussing half of their personal info or gossip in the real world, not paying attention to who is behind them in a line at a store.
They might even be the same people who, when in a check-in line at a condo or hotel, get their info from the front desk clerk who quietly points out on the map where they are staying and they verbally reiterate it themselves, “So I'm in Room 222?” for all to hear.
These could be people who give their credit card number on their cell phone or work phone in hearing distance for all around to copy down. Or give their credit card to that front desk clerk who happens to have just finished a cell phone call & never notice them taking a cell phone pic of the credit card because their kids are running around.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 9:57 p.m.
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Threejobs- What about the people who accused the Nerneys of popping roofies into people's drinks with absolutely no proof whatsoever on this very forum? Or the people who basically accuse Sgt. Foster for terrorizing 3 helpless women but weren't there to witness it themselves so can offer no proof? Or the person who jumps to a conclusion that someone is an illegal immigrant when there is nothing to prove that they are, and then say everyone who doesn't believe it is a naive idiot?
They should just be allowed to do this without providing how they know this, no proof, just a “little bird” told them? No- they should be held accountable for their words. Those aren't just “words;” they are accusations. There's a difference.
I could say “ThreeJobs has a history of groping small children, and should be registered as a sex offender” then PM everyone saying ThreeJobs is in real life John Doe, just because you pissed me off. That's not “just words.”
But by most posts here, I shouldn't have to be held accountable for doing something like that. I should just get banned, then come back with a new handle and start it all over again.
What if John Doe's employer knows who I am and has a good rapport with me, then fires John Doe based on that? Or the policeman who knows me and decides to investigate John Doe because he knows I'm a stand-up guy in his book. Is that the kind of forum you'd want?
Maybe not everyone would believe me, but there are some who would. Just like there are some who believe Wall was drunk driving/Cargo was terrorized and those who don't believe it.
JustAsking (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 9:57 p.m.
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Matt,
What has your post got to do with the topic?
Have you given any thought to how bored you will be without someone taking an opposing view? Or are you looking forward to just reading your own comments without challenge?
madmoores (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 10:10 p.m.
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No Matt, not that careless, just like I am not careless enough to give my personal info to “me and a couple others”.
What the heck people, we should have one last blast before the end, let's drive up the # of posts on this thread as far as it will go(102 as of a few minutes ago, pretty impressive so far), I'm game to hang out til the 4th.
Matthew Stoddard
July 24, 2008 at 10:10 p.m.
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Justasking- There's nothing to say you won't be anonymous to the rest of us. Brent already stated the info goes nowhere outside the Pilot. I've always said, “If you are afraid you will be held liable for your words, don't use them.” If you can't understand that, there's nothing more that can be explained about it. The Pilot is not censoring you or anyone else with this action. If people choose to drop out because of a policy change, it's a matter of individual choice. Same as taking the risk of ordering something online or by phone with a credit card. Same as crossing Lincoln Ave. a half block from the crosswalk light at 5:15pm on a Monday in July, yet you see that happen all the time…even adults with children.
How bored will I be? I doubt I will be bored. Do you post on any other forum at all? I do. I have to give more info on those sites than still what Pilot will start. As I've stated, I'm still among the living; nobody has stolen my identity yet, and I doubt they'd want to. They won't get much out of it.
If I wanted to read just my own comments, I'd ask to be a Pilot columnist for the paper, then force others to come on this site and hash it out amongst themselves…like Rob Douglas. Notice how he doesn't post on threads to his columns any longer? Or, I'd get a job on Fox News or a talk radio station where I can cut the mic of whomever doesn't agree with me.
meethinks (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:43 p.m.
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to those of you missing the point….free speech. vulgarity aside. (yes opinion.. but still) when I signed up i was mislead to believe that I had the RIGHT and CHOICE to remain behind the scenes, and express an opinion of topics in my local paper that would effect me or my family. Ahh duh folks…. that right to a choice was just expelled…due to some folks who disagree with opinions/facts from others. It is called thinking for ones self…..this forum gave us the oppurtunity to do so without fear of repercussion from employers, friends and family. Anyone remember “1984”?
Am I ready to stand behind anything I have posted, you betcha, it is my right as a free thinking person in what is supposed to be one of the most progressive nations in the world. Am I ready to go so boldly into my place of employment tomorrow morning and express the same views that effect me and mine so candidly? NO, the Pilot mislead us into thinking or believing that the comments posted here would be monitored for vulgar or obscene posts, nothing was said that ones views had to agree with a certain population in the valley. I am disgusted that a free, public publication would assume the position of censurship that is being offered to us. the very people whose advertisments and ideals keep it going.
I am also distrurbed by the fact that many of us have been posting for some time, ideals and opinions that again, we were led to believe would be monitored and removed if deemed “to offensive” .the basis of this article is the possible written “abusive” comments posted by some, but some of those comments also generated the most responses. It is the irresponsible practices of those left to moderate these discussions which may have lead to possible legal ramifications, not just those who expressed an opinion (although thank you to those that actually tried to document and back up your thoughts or opinions, again made some of us think and research) due to lack of the moderation, “abuse” of some ideals may be the view of some. It is the open forum that we have been accustomed that has led to the “abuse and misconduct” of comments made.
On the other hand, isn't great that we live in a nation where ones feelings may be hurt, but minds are expanded and people are sometimes encouraged to think for themselves.
The Pilot is a free publication (except Sundays.. where oddley enough more names are put to print in the record….)
Those of us that live work and spend our money here do have a say in a matter such as this. The more I think of it, I am not so ready for such a small publication to dictate to me what opinions I can say online, I am however strongly oppsed to the unregulated gathering of such personal information…. it is not Brents, or anyones elses business what gender or age I am…..Discrimination anyone????
lessworkmoreskiing (anonymous)
July 24, 2008 at 11:54 p.m.
› Suggest removal
This town is way too small to be able to honestly express your views on this forum with having your name tied to it. Being anonymous can bring out some straight honesty. Yes, things will be said that other people don't like and can't handle. Cry me a river. It makes the blogs interesting to read - except for people making comments against each other that are just a waste of time. Maybe you have nothing better to do that blog to people you don't even know about some BS and say ridiculous things back and forth like some 6th grade kids would.
The Pilot is most certainly collecting this info for their marketing purposes. I had been employed by the Pilot in the past, and the bottom line to most of what they do is money and advertising. The paper and this site is not free to run. I would say they could identify you with one single piece of info… if certain people are leaving numerous offensive comments, the Pilot can easily trace their IP address and block that computer from accessing the forums. If you are going to be a bastard and you get reported by others, then you lose out on your privileges. Being an adult is really hard.
There is absolutely no reason for the Pilot to need that much information from you. But maybe you dont care they are collecting this info to sell more advertising.
No me gusta.
meethinks (anonymous)
July 25, 2008 at 12:04 a.m.
› Suggest removal
My point being….The Pilot relies on the community. It was very irresponsible to allow some of the posts to be made public. However amusing and interesting they may have been. Now it is “cover your a&& time” and the blame is being assigned to the public. No, it is the public that has made this such a welcome tool to our community.
Lessskiing, you are so correct that this is a small time publication, all the more reason for some free thought. i have relatives a thousand miles away who have visited ,that daily read this site and post. our “small town mentality” is not always so small town, yet the majority of these ideals are made by the local crowd. Gives insight to those that we live and work among. Again the wonderous idea of free speech………………
handyman (anonymous)
July 25, 2008 at 5:38 a.m.
› Suggest removal
At my work, Mr. Techy was telling us about Big Brother's tentacles in our computer system. If Homeland Security comes knocking on Brent Boyer's door demanding the indenties of bloggers, is he going to say, “NO!” Hmmm … He may stick his neck out for a fellow reporter, but will our identities be kept confidential? I read these blogs for the entertainment value, like some of you. I don't like it when it just turns to vicious mud slinging. I leave at that point, but the good natured bantering is lots of fun. I won't blog when they require my name, phone number and year of birth.
MtnWarlock (anonymous)
July 25, 2008 at 8:07 a.m.
› Suggest removal
Well, I an only anticipate that this will open the door for bloggers to open dialog about issues on a confidential site, leaving their forum string address here, so that further discussions can take place and the Pilot will not have to worry! The stress of having to censor their site will be minimized and the same trash can be spilled and not at the Pilots expense! The string site can require the same sign up without reviling personal information and you can use a new identity to speak of the issue at hand! I guess the Pilot can't ban other reference sites, now can they! Then again, why bother. Keep it legitimate or be gone, right! Big brother is watching more than you know! Have a good day!
id04sp (anonymous)
July 25, 2008 at 9:39 a.m.
› Suggest removal
Uh, I get the Pilot's marketing crap (the real estate glossy color magazine, Steamboat at Home, or whatever) even though my current ID was obtained through a “free” e-mail provider I signed up with from a public computer.
This is because the Pilot marketeers can search the county tax records just like everyone else and get my mailing address.
It's not about marketing. It's about ad revenue and realtors.
When I was in college, my roomate and I co-wrote an advice column in the school newspaper where we made up the questions and the answers. Everybody knew it was a humor piece, and not a real advice column. We only got ONE real letter in the two years we wrote the column. Some of the school administrators were fans and couldn't wait to see their names mentioned in the column.
There's a long-standing policy at the Pilot I agree with. They don't engage in character assassination of people who are not public figures. A moderated website could solve all that, except then they'd have to pay two people full time to do the job.
It's a real concern that publishing false information about someone leaves the Pilot liable for libel. Big legal mess. Very expensive. Posters are also liable, and don't always know how to voice an opinion in speculation (like using the word “alleged”) when proof is not at hand. In my case, when I've written something that might damage a person's reputation and lead to a suit for libel, I've always had written proof in my hand to back it up. For example, I did not accuse a public official of being a victim of narcissistic personality disorder. Instead, I published the criteria copied from the DSM-IV so that people could draw their own opinions.
The average Joe Boarder who signs on drunk and high with an axe to grind and flings out accusations may not understand the difference between saying something that is verifiably true, something that is alleged, and something that is intentionally false and intended to harm a person's reputation, income, standing in the community, etc.
The way I have been able to make the same allegations over and over about certain individuals and organizations without being sued is the FACT that I could back up what I wrote. Any attorney will tell you that, when someone accuses you of wrongdoing, you don't respond, offer a defense or attack back and thereby lend credibility to the accusation UNLESS you can prove it is false AND that you were harmed by it. You remain silent and let the accuser try to prove it in a forum which has jurisdiction over the matter.
(continued)
Joe_Mama (anonymous)
July 25, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.
› Suggest removal
Joe thinks that anyone who thinks that personal info will not be used in a detrimental manner is simply naive.
It w